The KAUTZ, KOUTS, KOUTZ, COUTTS PAGE OF QUERIES

Email your queries to us and we will post them as soon as possible... even though our Couts have not been tied to your names directly, we have a great deal of information in common.....

Couts Family Association

Name: Claude E. Kautz, JR E-Mail: DEEMAR@SKYENET.NET Referred By: Just Surfed On In Location: originally Annapolis md now northern Michigan comments: my father (Claude E. Kautz Sr) was originally from Hampton/New Port News Va area. Most of the family stayed there, he moved to Annapolis Md. Do not know much about his father, my mother is a Horleman (or Horlemann) the name of here father was probably changed to make it shorter. I was very interested when I saw your site.
>Cc: "Anne Coots Brown" >Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 1:29 AM >Subject: Coots Researchers > > >> Dear Barbara, >> Just wanted to let you and your group know about us, >> another Coots bunch of researchers. >> We started out looking for Coots, but it has expanded >> to other spellings of the name. >> Thought that you might want to put us in one of your >> newsletters for the information of your members. I >> intend to do the same to our members to inform them >> about your web site. >> I personally put out, for lack of a better word, the COOTS >> FORUM. Others send me info and after enough has >> accumulated then I post it to everyone on my list. Very >> primitive, but has been effective. >> Several months ago one of our contacts, Anne Coots Brown, >> offered to set up a Coots web site for us. We are getting >> more participants all the time, so our site is constantly >> growing. I thought that it might be benificial for our two >> groups to know about each other. I am going to ask >> Anne to link your page to ours and I will inform the forum >> about you also. Perhaps you can do the same for us? >> Our web site address is: >> >> Hope to hear from you, >> Winnie Bell From: Patty Fuchs Subject: [COUTS] Hello Hi I just subscribed to this list and thought I'd introduce myself. My name is Patty (Drummond) Fuchs and I live in eastern Ohio. I am doing research on my great-great grandparents and further back, although my information is limited. The farthest back that I've gotten is Peter Coutz, born in Greene County, Pennsylvania married to (first name unknown - maiden name believed to be Flowers) Father of Leonitis Hamilton Coutz born: May 26, 1849 in Greene County, Pennsylvania died: March 19, 1935 in Wheeling, West Virginia Leonitis married Malissa (Rhome) Coutz who was born on Dec. 19, 1848 (also in Greene County, PA) and died on Jan. 12, 1939 in Wheeling, WV. Anyone having any information on this line, please let me know, and I will be happy to exchange what I have with you... From: RSchrott@aol.com (by way of Carol C-H ) Subject: [COUTS] george couts To: COUTS-L@rootsweb.com Resent-From: COUTS-L@rootsweb.com I am trying to find information on George Washington Couts born 1870s probably in Pittsburgh Pa. He worked for the Pennsylvania Railroad. married to Elizabeth Donafrey (1879-1966). They are the parents of Richard William Couts 1915-1997 Frank J. Couts George Couts Charles Couts Paul Couts Robert Couts John Couts (the only one still alive) Francis Couts Harry Couts and I believe three daughter whose names I do not Know thank you
From: "Maria Joseph" Old-To: Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:37:19 -0500 Organization: X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Subject: [COUTS] COONCE, Jacob KY.MO born ca 1760 Resent-Message-ID: To: COUTS-L@rootsweb.com Resent-From: COUTS-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5 X-Loop: COUTS-L@rootsweb.com Resent-Sender: COUTS-L-request@rootsweb.com Jacob Coonce - wife possibly Maria Bell. They had two children in KY, Susanna b 1789, John b 1787. About 1790 they went to St. Charles Mo where they joined Jacob's two brothers, John and Nicholas Coonce. The brother John married Elizabeth Schultz and brother Nicholas married Rebecca McConnell in 1799. Jacob Coonce and Maria Bell had the following children - above mentioned Susanna and John, plus Eliza, Elizabeth, Harris, Ibby, Nancy, Polly, Jacob b 1806, Henry b 1807 and George b abt. 1810. Jacob is listed in the book by Bryan and Rose - "A History of the Pioneer Families of MO." We know that one of their languages was Dutch, and family oral history (but no proof) says they may have started out in PA. Have lots of info from Jacob forward, but would like to find parents of Jacob (possibly Nicholas Coonce and Mary Power). When Jacob's brother Nicholas married Rebecca McConnell in 1799 in Barameo Church in St. Charles the priest wrote that Nicholas said he was the legitimate son of Nicholas Coonce and Mary Pahour (Power). The priest spoke Spanish and the Coonces did not. The interrupter between Coonce and priest was a French Canadian. In 1700s my Coonces could not read or write. Of course, the name Coonce was spelled many different ways, settling down to Coonce by about 1840. If this rings any bells, I would be more than willing to share information. Maria Coonce Joseph St. Petersburg, FL
Subject: [COUTS] Christian Couts To: COUTS-L@rootsweb.com Hi, I am researching Christian Couts of Scotch descent who served three years in the American army during the Revolutionary war. He moved from Pennsylvania to Crawford County, Ohio in 1821. He had a son Henry, born July 4, 1810 in Lancaster Co., Pennsylvania. Henry married Sarah Ann Peterman on August 25, 1833. They lived in Liberty Township, Ohio. Their children were: Samuel - born April 10, 1834 David - born November 4, 1835 John A. - born October 2, 1837 William H. H. - born March 15, 1840 Barbara Ellen - Born March 18, 1842 - my great grandmother Jacob - born March 3, 1844 Jeremiah B. - born March 12, 1846 Frances - born July 18, 1848 Hiram Andrew - born November 6, 1849 Eliza Ann - born April 7, 1852 Sanford - born September 21, 1854 Charles Fremont - born March 29, 1857 Christian is buried in the Crall Cemetery in Liberty Township. The cemetery record states he was born in 1775 and died 1830. He is listed with Mary, apparently his wife who died November 5, 1834. I would like to obtain information on Christian and Henry so I can join the DAR. I have information on Barbara Ellen that I can share with anyone that is interested. Thank you, Carol Ferguson
From: "carolyn" Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 20:19:55 -0500 Subject: [COUTS] Samuel Cootes of Rockingham Co VA Resent-From: COUTS-L@rootsweb.com My ancestor is Samuel Cootes b. 11/15/1792 Berks Co PA; d. 1882 Rockingham Co VA m. Emily Graham 1818 Rock. Co, dau of John and Margaret Boyd Graham. 1st record in VA is marriage of sister Hannah Coutts, father Jacob Coutts, to Joseph Buchanan in City of Richmond in 1814. Location and info about Samuel can be found at http://cootes.com Father of Samuel is Jacob Cootes Known children: Jacob jr. b. abt 1800: m. abt 1827 Maria Louisa Vandersloot in PA, d. Hardy Co WVA 1855 ; Margaret m. Jacob Billheimer 1830 Rock. Co; Mary m. Isaac M. Johnson/ston 1823 Rock. Co VA; Hannah m. 1 Andrew Stroup/b/raub abt 1808 PA; 2 Joseph Buchanan 1814 Richmond City VA; 3 George Dove 1930 Rock. Co VA; 4 John McLaughlin 1834 Rock. Co VA; Elizabeth m. 1 ?Patton 2 William Kemp Gailey 1831 Rock Co VA; Edith b. abt 1810 m. John Rice 1832 Rock. Co VA;:Reuben W. b abt 1806 and Samuel. I think that Jacob Cootes is a descendant of Nicholas Kutz of Berks Co and a son of his son Thomas- the Jacob who married Catherine Roth/Rhoads and later moved to Northumberland Co PA. Would love to hear if I'm right or wrong. Carolyn Cootes Anyone researching Cootes in Rockingham, contact me-we're family. Carolyn Cootes
From: Tim E Barnes Subject: [COUTS] Roll-Call Resent-Message-ID: To: COUTS-L@rootsweb.com Resent-From: COUTS-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7 X-Loop: COUTS-L@rootsweb.com Resent-Sender: COUTS-L-request@rootsweb.com Hi, here goes 1.Lorenzo D. Coats-Rebecca McAllister m.5/13/1862 in Owens Co. Indiana 2.Eva Belle Coates(1874-1911)-Samuel McClellen Rea(1864-1947) both of Indiana m.1895 in Terre Haute Indiana 2. Mary R. Coates 3.Fern Ellen Rea(1906-1977)-Paul Edgar Barnes(1905-1990) born Indiana both died in MI (Daughter of Eva Belle) Any help would be great Thanks,Tim B.
From: "Beverly" Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 17:40:01 -0600 Subject: [COUTS] Coots Roll Call Resent-Sender: COUTS-L-request@rootsweb.com My Coots: Andrew Coots b.1862 AL d.8-1-1930 AR wife Eliza J. "Etter" Bagwell b.1872 AR d.1-4-1958 AR 1.Iva m. Tom Ware (have children) 2.Katie 3.Vada 4.James Wesley b.12-18-1892 m. Louella Teague (have children) 5.Squire Franklin 1897 m. Dora E. Galloway (have Children 6.Ida Pearl 1-15-1899 m. Lawrence Columbus Galloway (Mine) (have descendants) 7. George Dexter b.1902 8. Ada b.1907 m. ? Kirkland 9. Zada b.1907 10.Othal b.12-16-1909 d. 11-1986 11.Eugene b.1910 ----------------------------------------------- Land records for Andrew and Eliza J. Bagwell are from Baxter Co., AR.
Subject: Eva Belle Couts Subject: Eva Belle Couts From: Tim E Barnes Hi, I see you have a listing for Couts in the Indiana area. Do you happen to have anything on an Eva B. Couts? I belive her middle name was Belle. I have been looking for Some time for info on her. The only thing I have at the moment is that she was born in Owen Co. Indiana on Oct. 5, 1874. She died Sept. 29, 1911. She was married to Samuel McClellen Rea. Her father was Lorenza D. Couts Her Mother was Febecca McAllister. I imagine this is a typo, and think maybe it was Rebecca McAllister. I am still not sure of Eve Belles last name. On my Grandmothers SSDI she was listed as Eva Belle Coates. However my grandma listed my ggrandfathers last name as MCullen on her SS app. So she has a history of less than perfect spelling. The thing that leads me to believe it is actually Couts is the above and that most of the info came from her death Cert. and as such may be a little more likely to be accurate. Well that's what I have, If you can help I would be very greatful, and of course I can share info about her offspring if you want. Thanks agian. Tim B. Bloodally@Juno.com
Name: Nancy Arendsee NArendsee@aol.com Referred by: AOL Comments: I'm descended from Barbara Koutz b.unknown, d.8/26/1843 in Somerset Co., PA. She married Andrew Blocher. Her parents were Michael Koutz and Barbara. Do you have any information on this family? Thanks, Nancy Name: Diane M. Kautz jloo@wwnet.net Referred by: Net Search From: Canton, MI (near Detroit) Comments: Just starting to look into my genealogy, any hints on how to get started? My father (Floyd) was the son of Roy (born in Germany) and Carrie (born in Chicago?). My family has received mailings from Kautz Vineyards in the past. They are hosting the 2000 Kautz Family Reunion, Murphy, CA Name: Ron Couch ewaltman@magnolia.net Referred by: Net Search From: Vicksburg, MS Comments: Hi. I wanted to ask about a possible connection to the Couts/Kautz line. My 7 ggrandfather, Jacob Couch, who died in 1797, in Green Co. TN, has been eluding our family for 30 years. The Couch clan after Jacob is documented to death, but we have found no wife or parents for Jacob. Is there a Couts/Kautz who might have been his father? He would have to have been in the part of VA that is now eastern TN in the late 1600's or early 1700's. Help us and we will love you forever. From: hadkins hadkins@uswest.net Subject: Couts family in Ohio OHIO COUTSES, ARE YOU READY? My name I s Holly Couts Adkins born in Canton, Ohio the daughter of Harry Gifford Couts, born Newcomerstown, Ohio. Our family has been in Tuscarawas County, Ohio for 200 years. My grandfather was Ernest Ray Couts born February 23, 1889; grandmother was Hollis Elma Stoffer Couts, born June 20, 1891. Newcomerstown, Ohio . My great grandfather was William Van Buren Couts born February 1, 1836 in Newcomerstown, Ohio and great grandmother was Martha Postel who was his second marriage. William Van Buren Couts was also married to Mary Casteel. My great, great grandfather was James Couts born May 4, 1808 in Tuscarawas County, Ohio and was married to Rebecca Wilson. My great, great, great grandfather was William Couts born November 23, 1780 in New Jersey and married Jane Hougey from Tuscarawas County, Ohio. We were told that he migrated to Tuscarawas County in a Scottish ox cart as a very young man and was of Scottish heritage. My fathers immeditate family is as follows: My father had several brothers: Russell Couts, Jim Couts, David Couts and Bill Couts all of whom are deceased. His sisters were Hazel Couts Jones, Kay Couts, Erma Couts all of whom are deceased with one living sister, Gladys Couts Sewell. She resides in Ohio. All of my father's siblings stayed in Ohio except my father who moved his family to Birmingham, Alabama in 1952. I will forward any further information my family has for your records. I have more information about my grandfather's siblings, but I will have to find it. We do have published information (book) dating the family in Tuscarawas County, Ohio back to the early 1800s. This Couts family is of Scottish decent which can be traced to Scotland several centuries BC. Until reading your site, I had never heard the name associated with being German. All very interesting. Feel free to give out my email address to those wanting information. I will send more when I have t ime. Holly Couts Adkins
Subj: Couts Family in Ohio From: tcdcbc01@bright.net (Terry & Diana Couts & Family) I just found this site tonight on impulse. Haven't looked over much at this point, but I'll just share a small bit of my info, and if it fits with this site, people can contact me. My father, Lee Ray Couts, from Van Wert, OH started doing family research about 7-8 years ago. My dad got cancer and died about three years ago. I took over the family genealogy info. from dad just before his death. My dad's Couts family came from the Couts' out of Tuscarawas County, Ohio from the early 1900's I think (pulling this all from my faulty memory at this point in time). The family line I come from came from Pennsylvania, and before that, I forget, I need to review my books of information. I am too tired to recall tonight, but I have reams of info. On family from early 1900's to present, with all the family members and branches. Not so much going back in time, which I would like to connect back to sometime in near future. Anyone wishing to share and exchange data is welcome to contact me at tcdcbc01@bright.net Please no spam or other advertisements and junk mail. Terry B. Couts - 1951
Subj: re/Kautz ancestors Date: 99-10-26 11:17:55 EDT From: budighd@clear.lakes.com (Herbert and Donna Budig) Good morning, I am Donna Budig, 955 Barney St. Owatonna, MN 55060, my e-mail address is budighd@clear.lakes.com My grandfather was Emil Kautz, born Sept. 3, 1884 in Stillwater, MN he died June 16, 1952. His fathers name was Fred Kautz, born April 12, 1856 in Germany & died Nov.12, 1932 I believe the family were from Pomerania, Germany. My aunt has alot of the history written down.Would you have any info regarding this family ? Would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks Donna
http://genforum. genealogy.com/huey/messages/139.html HUEY, COUTS , NJ>OH abt. 1817 Posted by: Eli Nordstrom Date: May 08, 1999 at 18:26:44 of 218 I am seeking more information on Jane HUEY (1783-1865) She was thought to be Pennsylvania Dutch. Jane married William COUTS and lived in Sussex County, NJ. Around 1817 they migrated to Guernsey County, OH with seven children. Thanks in advance!
http://www.compuology.com/cagenweb/sdquery007.html I am seeking information on FARAN SHERIDAN COATES (d. 23 Nov 1940) or his descendents. He moved to San Diego prior to May of 1918 from Ohio(probably ~ 1902-1903). In 1918 his address was "RFD #4, San Diego". He was married to CORA NEEL (d. 24 Dec 1959) on May 7, 1902 and had one son, HERBERT NEEL COATES (b. 29 July, 1903, d. 17 Jan 1956) Herbert Neel Coates was thought to have one daughter MYRL COATES. Myrl was said to have moved to northern California. FARAN, CORA, and HERBERT are thought to be all buried in the San Diego area. FARAN was born with his last name spelled COUTS, but had his name changed. His parents were JOHN CHADWELL COUTS and MARY EMALINE LITTLE, from Irish Ridge, Guernsey County, Ohio. Thank you for helping me find information on my Grandmother's lost brother and his family..
Subj: Couts Surname in OHIO Date: 99-10-02 23:29:35 EDT From: boddie@pacbell.net (Benjamin S. Miller) I have an Ida B. Couts in my line that married William A. Booth. Ida B. Couts lived in either Coshocton Co. or Tuscarawas Co. in Ohio. William A. Booth was born 21 Jul 1867, he and Ida married 9 Jul 1899 and he died Oct 1947 in Coshocton Co. Ohio. he is buried in West Lawn Cemetery, Newcomerstown Tuscarawas Co. Ohio. I hope that this will help you in some way! Ben Miller Name: Maribeth Kouts mbkouts@aol.com Referred by: Just Surfed On In From: Atlanta, GA Comments: Please keep me informed of Kouts family(ies) events. Thank you very much! Name: Nellie Kautz Wilkerson 123winest@concentric.net From: Hampton, VA Time: 1999-06-26 23:42:44 Comments: My father was Frederick Matthews Kautz, born in Hampton, Virignia on December 5, 1898. I am the youngest of ten girls and one boy, born to Federick's wife, Laura Belle Merrill Kautz. Daddy's family is originally from Germany. Could we be related? Nell couts@iline.com Michael Couts Referred by: Just Surfed On In From: Ft Myers, Florida Comments: My family came from Penn., around Pittsburg, I was told. My great great grand-dad was the only survivor after an indian masacare. My great grand-dad then moved to Toledo, Ohio to work in the oil refinerys. Could we fit into your tree??? Name: Jim Snider jsnider@iname.com Website: 13th Dimension From: Buffalo, NY Comments: I'm looking for the Kautz family who lived in Clarence, NY, throughout the '60s, '70s, & '80s, on Bank Street. I don't know if they're still living in Clarence today, although I know that they sold their Bank Street home and moved on. They had three sons, I believe, Henry,David, & Peter. Peter, I think, is living in Ithaca and runs a martial arts academy. The parents, Henry & Barbara, may still be living in Clarence, although they might have moved south when allthe kids got married and moved away to start families of their own. Subject: Countz, Augusta Co., VA http://www.gendex.com/users/mcount/count/d0027/g0000007.html#I2116 GEORGE COUNTZ BIRTH: AUGUSTA COUNTY, VIRGINIA REFN: FTJ#2116 Family 1: (UNKNOWN) COUNTZ 1.+ELIZABETH COUNTZ ELIZABETH COUNTZ BIRTH: 1765, AUGUSTA CO., VIRGINIA DEATH: 1786, GILES COUNTY, VIRGINIA REFN: FTJ#2109 Father: GEORGE COUNTZ Mother: (UNKNOWN) COUNTZ Family 1: JACOB ALLEN ALBERT MARRIAGE: 22 APR 1783, AUGUSTA COUNTY, VIRGINIA JENNIE ALBERT BIRTH: REFN: FTJ#7627 Father: JACOB ALLEN ALBERT Mother: ELIZABETH COUNTZ Family 1: JOHN COOKE MARRIAGE: 5 NOV 1805, MONROE CTY., W. VIRGINIA centaur@cct.infi.net I'm looking for more information about Coutts history. I see our names are very close (less the "T") Love to hear from you Kevin Coutts From: "David Brandeberry" <31505g@bright.net> Subject: Looking for more Couts families. Hello, My name is Evelyn (Couts) Brandeberry. I am looking for information on my father's family. He was Dale Couts born in Kendalville, Indiana January 1928. His father was Ora H. Couts and his father was Joshua Couts. I only know of three cousins on my dad's side of the family and I would love to find some other relatives if we have any. My father recently passed away on February 10th of this year. If you have any info it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Evelyn (Couts) Brandeberry Researching Johannes CUNTZE and wife Catherine STOEVER. He was born 1706 in Germany and died about 1777 in Augusta County. The family name was later spelled KUNCE when son Nicholas resided in Frederick County, Virginia. The family moved to Orange County, North Carolina and eventually by the end of the 18th century to Eastern Tennessee. Does anyone have any information about this family? Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. PLEASE ADRRESS YOUR REPLY TO: brendae@comsource.net (Brenda Evans) Subject: KAUTZ Family Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 Hi. Noticed your query about the KAUTZ family and wonder if we might be researching the same family? Here is a brief run-down of what I have thus far: Descendants of: Johann "Hans" George Kautz 1 Johann "Hans" George Kautz b. 1705 Margraviate Hessen, Helmlingen, GER d. 26 Jan 1745 GER m. 28 Nov 1730 Lichtenau, Germany Anna Barbara Wuertz b. 1706 Margraviate Hessen, Helmlingen, GER d. 01 Sep 1785 Friesburg, Salem Co., NJ 2 Johann George (Coutch) Kautz b. 03 Mar 1735 Helmlingen, GER d. 09 Jul 1798 Upper Alloways Creek Twp., Salem Co., NJ m. Anna Marie (Barbara?) Fix? b. ca. 1738 Germany? d. 01 Sep 1785 3 Johann Adam Kautz b. 25 Mar 1763 Cohensey (Friesburg), Salem Co., NJ 3 Anna Barbara Kautz b. 10 Oct 1765 Salem Co., NJ d. 26 Jun 1852 Aaronsburg, Centre Co., PA m. 1785 Cohensey (Friesburg), Salem Co., NJ Ludwig Albrecht Wilhelm Ilgen b. 15 Oct 1759 Hechlingen, Markgrafschaft Anspach, GER d. 20 Aug 1823 Aaronsburg, Centre Co., PA 4 Hannah Ilgen b. 11 Apr 1786 Cohensey, Salem Co., NJ d. 1786 Cohensey (Friesburg), Salem Co., NJ 4 Anna Maria Magdalena "Polly" Ilgen b. 12 Oct 1787 Cohensey (Friesburg), Salem Co., NJ d. aft. 1860 Anderson Twp., Madison Co., IN m. ca. 1805 Salem Luth. Church, Centre Co., PA Jacob (Bauer) Bower b. ca. 1782 Berks Co., PA d. ca. 1843/4 Anderson Twp., Madison Co., IN 4 Elizabeth Ilgen b. 26 Apr 1790 Cohensey (Friesburg), Salem Co., NJ d. 15 Jun 1854 Centre Co., PA m. 04 Nov 1806 PA Philip Bastian (Moser) Musser b. 27 Aug 1785 Linn Twp., Northampton Co., PA d. 28 Nov 1829 Millheim, Centre Co., PA 4 Anna Margareta Ilgen b. 06 Apr 1793 Cohensey (Friesburg), Salem Co., NJ d. 06 Aug 1859 m. Thomas Furst 4 Johann "John" Christoph Wilhelm Ilgen b. 07 Dec 1795 Cohensey (Friesburg), Salem Co., NJ 4 Catharina (Catherine) Ilgen b. 07 Dec 1797 Cohensey, Salem Co., NJ m. Johannes "John" Bower b. ca. 1795 Centre Co., PA 4 Daniel "George" Emanuel Ilgen b. 11 Nov 1799 Cohensey (Friesburg), Salem Co., NJ d. 12 Jul 1864 Cedarville, Stephenson Co., IL m. Maria Eva "Polly" (Musser) Moser b. 1799 d. 1870 4 Christina (Christiana) Ilgen b. 09 Jul 1803 Aaronsburg, Centre Co., PA d. 19 Nov 1890 m. ___ (Schreurer) Shroyer/Schrimp? 4 Johannes "John" Michael William Ilgen b. 17 Jul 1806 Aaronsburg, Centre Co., PA d. 19 Nov 1890 Tylersville, Clinton Co., PA m. 03 Jan 1830 PA Elizabeth Bartges b. 04 Jan/Oct 1807 Penn Hall, Centre Co., PA d. 09 Apr 1889 Tylersville, Clinton Co., PA 4 Lydia L. Ilgen b. 12 Jan 1810 Aaronsburg, Centre Co., PA d. 23 Oct 1862 near Salona, Clinton Co., PA m. Samuel Philip Burrell b. 14 Jan 1808 d. 12 May 1895 near Salona, Clinton Co., PA 3 Elisabeth Kautz m. Adam Fix 3 Margareta Kautz m. Adam Painter 3 Unknown child Kautz 3 Unknown child Kautz Any "hits"? Regards, John (Jack) Stewart E-mail: johns2rt@aol.com Home page url: http://members.aol.com/johns2rt/ From: Larry and Nancy Kautz Subject: Several Things Dear Barb, I see by your website that you already got some information about the Kautz, etc. family gathering in Fairfield Bay, Arkansas last June. The weekend went about as I had expected it to go. I had a very pleasant visit with a number of people whom I have known only through the mails over a period of years. Also present were two of my children and two grandchildren and a cousin (Ron Kautz of Arroyo Grande, CA) who I see only sporadically since we became adults about 40 years ago. Much of the time was spent getting acquainted, so there was little time left for genealogy. That was fine with me. I will note that both Darrell Kautz and Dick Kautz have made an incredible amount of progress in their branches of the family. Darrell was actually able to trace his line back from the USA through about six or eight gernerations who lived in Russia to its origins in Germany. Dick was able to combine a speaking tour in Germany with a visit to the town (Edigheim) which his ancestors left in about 1820. He met a few of his distant relatives there. Dick is a fascinating individual - a leading researcher in a relatively new branch of mathematics (chaos theory) with all kinds of interests outside his field. John and June Kautz, the hosts for the Arkansas reunion, had done an excellent job of planning housing and events. Except for my own close relatives, John and June were the only ones of the 60 or 70 people there who I had met previously. They had visited our home when we were living in Cincinnati about a dozen years ago. Now for the next reunion: John said that you might be interested in co-hosting a get-together in California in the year 2000. It certainly would be nice to get some of your family to join us Kautzes even though you don't know how to spell the name right. Ron Kautz (my cousin) and his wife, Bernie, and Ollen Kay who lives in San Diego also mentioned an interest in co-hosting such an event. The Kautz Vinyards would be a wonderful site. I think that, if Steve Kautz or some other member of the vinyard family were to be asked, they could make most of the plans. I understand they do conventions of all sizes at the vinyard's entertainment complex. How about it? A note about your ancestor Teter K(C)a(o)utz(s). Are you aware that Dietrich is a very uncommon German name, but Dieter is a fairly common German name. My guess is that his name was actually Dieter Kautz. As you have become aware, spelling was not a strong suit for many 18th and 19th Century record-keepers. Also, few of the German Auswanderern (emigrants) could read and write in German much less in English. It is easy to see how his name could be spelled in phonic English as Teter Couts. In reading your newsletters, I just discovered that Cave Couts was a West Point graduate. It is of interest that the best known of the American Kautzes, Major General August Valentine Kautz, also graduated from West Point (in 1852). He was stationed in the west for most of his 40 years in the army and had his headquarters on Angel Island in San Francisco Bay while he was commander of the 8th US Infantry through much of the 1870's and 1880's. As you continue to develop your family history, you will want at first to gather as much information as you can on your relatives living in America. You have done a remarkable job on this so far especially since you were able to trace their progress from Pennsylvania to Virginia to North Carolina and Tennessee and to California. Eventually, you will want to go back to Germany for more information. It seems likely to me that your ancestor, Christian Kautz, and several of his sons (Dietrich, Johannes, Hans Georg) are the persons mentioned in Egle's Names of Foreigners Who Took Oath of Allegiance and in Ehmann's Die Auswanderung in die Neuengland -Staaten. I have never seen either of these books, but have seen exerpts from them and understand that some of the entries give the names of the towns from which the persons emigrated. Do I remember that your ancestors came from either Steinau or Hanau in Hesse, Germany? In a list of 1500 Kautz households in Germany today, I find 5 families in Hanau, but none listed in Steinau. Your most likely source of information will be Lutheran Church records. The Mormon Church has copied to microfilm the church records of more than half of the Lutheran churches in Germany. If you are positive of the town where Christian and his children came from, it will be easy to find out at any Mormon Church whether the town's church records have been copied and are available for viewing. Is it time to do that now? Enough! If you didn't notice, I gave you two jobs to do in the above paragraphs. I'll close now before I really start bossing you around. Let me know what you think of the Kautz Vinyards idea. Your (Oh, so distant) Cousin Larry Kautz Subj: Couts Geneology Date: 99-02-28 07:43:36 EST From: majec@wcoil.com (martha j couts) Hello, My name is Martha Couts. My ex-husband was Lee Ray Couts. His grandfather was Clarence Sr. Van Wert County Ohio. Is there any chance that this branch is related to your branch? My son has done the work for one side of my family, but I don't think he's had time to do too much on the Couts side. Very interested in what you might think of the possibility of being related. Thanks. Name: Arthur Couts Referred by: Net Search From: Washington, Pa. Time: 1999-02-07 14:08:27 Comments: We are the only Couts family in our town.I'd like to know where and how our family got here Name: Doug White Referred by: Just Surfed On In From: Camden, SC Time: 1999-02-02 02:42:18 Comments: Looking for my Kautz ancestors from Brown County, Ohio Name: Jennifer Whiteford, jenzbooks@alltel.net Referred by: Just Surfed On In From: Rural Valley, Armstrong Co., Pennsylvania Time: 1999-01-17 06:56:12 Comments: Great website! I am descended from Michael Couts who lived in Washington Co., Pennsylvania. He had a daughter Lorena Bell Couts who married Edward Stephen Byers. They were my gr gr grandparents. I haven't done much research on them yet but do plan to in the future. Will forward more info. when I get it! Name: Thomas P. Kouts, tomnmary@midamer.net Referred by: Just Surfed On In From: born in Evansville, In Time: 1998-12-30 00:31:00 Comments: Didn't know you had a web page, quess I never looked. Great grandfather was born in Kouts, In. Have been there several times. Also have attended 1 Kautz, katz, Kouts reunion. Name: Charles Stigberg, phrolic@aol.com Referred by: Just Surfed On In From: Hampton, Virginia - USA Time: 1998-12-01 21:45:41 Comments: Hi - I'm a native of Hampton, VA - descendent of Fred M. Kautz, my grandfather. His brothers were Charles and Earl. Fred M. Kautz was born 1898 died 1964 in Hampton, VA. Buried in Parklawn Cemetery, Hampton, VA near his brothers. His father (my great grandfather Kautz) is in Oakland Cemetery in Hampton, VA. He immigrated from Germany. It is my understanding their name was originally preceded by "Von" but they dropped it to conform more to other American names. My mother, Margaret Kautz married my father (a Swede) thus the different last name. Name: Arthur C. Kouts, ack13@ix.netcom.com Referred by: Just Surfed On In From: Arizona Time: 1998-11-21 04:05:59 Comments: Born in Arizona, Father born in Colorado, Grandfather born at Kouts, Indiana 1872. Would like to hear from you if you can give me more information on the family. Name: Andreas Kautz Referred by: Net Search From: Stolzalpe, Austria Time: 1998-11-19 12:29:07 Comments: I'm very surprised. There're lotsa Kautz' all 'round the world. I always thought, that my family is the only family with the name "Kautz". Very funny. Name: Caleb Couts Referred by: Just Surfed On In From: Oskaloosa, IA Time: 1998-11-12 23:27:07 Name: COUTTS, jarobco@hotmail.com Referred by: Just Surfed On In From: Wellington, New Zealand Time: 1998-11-12 20:02:16 Comments: Hi there. My name is Robert Andrew COUTTS. My father was born in the Shetland Islands and the story is that there were three brothers who set sail one day to do a spot of fishing out from the coast of Norway. They got caught in a storm and were washed ashore on the coast of the Shetland Isles. There surname was spelt either KUTZ, KHUTZ or KUTZE and over many years changed to it's prescent form of COUTTS. How true this story is I don't know but if anyone reading this have connections with the COUTTS FAMILIES of Shetland please e-mail me. You have a great page, very interesting. Regards Robert Coutts Name: Eli Nordstrom, elinordstrom@hotmail.com Referred by: Just Surfed On In From: Rector, PA -- Descendent of Virginia and Tuscarawas County Ohio Couts and Chadwell Families Time: 1998-10-10 03:18:41 Comments: What a wonderful website. The dedication to the family is quite apparent. I am a the ggg-grandaughter of Wm. Peter Couts, Sr.. His Son Wm. Peter Jr. married Phoebe Chadwell, daughter of George and Ruth R. [Taylor] Chadwell of VA. They migrated to Tuscarawas County, Ohio where their son John Chadwell Couts married Mary Emaline Little, and to this union my grandmother, Wilma Elizabeth Couts was born. I am willing to share information with anyone interested, and would love to find "long lost" relatives! mnbns lives here!!! Name: Elizabeth Foshaug, elizabethfoshuag@mailexcite.com Referred by: Net Search From: Hudsonville, MI Time: 1998-10-03 15:05:47 Comments: Do you know of a nywhere I could obtain a copy of the book: The Descendants of John Jacob Koutz and Sarah E. Christlieb? Name: James Russell Koutz, wildchild_koutz@yahoo.com Referred by: Net Search From: Alma, Michigan Time: 1998-09-19 02:49:35 Comments: Well someone in our family told us about this. we were excited to find out things and would be really interested to hear more about what goes on. Alicia Walker has attended our Koutz family reunion in Michigan. My grandfather was Edmun Koutz, and his wife was Sara (Steele) Koutz from Elwell, Michigan. If possible please e-mail us some information about anything that is going to be going on in the near future. It would be greatly appreciated. Sincerly, James Russell Koutz and family Name: David J. Kautz, dkautz@pce.net Website: Dragon's Home Referred by: Just Surfed On In From: Buffalo, NY Time: 1998-09-16 19:15:58 Comments: Originally from Youngstown, OH GGGrandfather - August Kautz, Union Army, Battle of the Crater, Petersburg, VA (they still remember the name down there after 120yrs!!!) GGrandfather - Adolf Alexander Grandfather - Daniel Donald Father - Henry George Repeating family names - George, Daniel, Henry August Kautz had a brother that went west to Oregon after Civil war, most family history lost when Grandfather was orphand at 8 yrs old. Name: ERNEST R. KAUTZ, ERNIEL38K@aol.com Referred by: Just Surfed On In From: ST. LOUIS MO. 63138 Time: 1998-09-15 04:05:09 Comments: IS IT POSABEL TO GET COPY OF FAIMLY TREE INFORMATION PLEASE FATHER TRYING TO DO HIS NAME ERNEST L. KAUTZ Name: Robert Leo Cannon (Kautz), kautz@swbell.net Referred by: Just Surfed On In From: Independence, Missouri Time: 1998-07-31 01:55:00 Comments: I am working on my family tree and looking for relatives. My dad was Francis Leo Kautz, born in Stillwater Okla., His dad was John Jacob Kautz, born in Oklahoma in 1891 His dad was John George Kautz, born in Strausberg Germany in 1850, I believe, but I will have to verify this at a later date.
Subject: Couts Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:16:57 EDT Dear Barbara, I wrote you a little earlier about the Couts Family Association and my son-in- law's grandmother. Millie (Moore) Bishop told me that her mother was Jesse Forest/Forrest Couts, b. December 1885, Newcomerstown, Ohio, d. Sep. 9, 1970, Redlands, San Bernardino Co., Calif. Jesse's husband was Newton Miller Moore, Sr. b. Feb. 1883, Newcomerstown, Ohio, d. October 1968, Riverside, Riverside Co., Calif. Both Jesse and Newton are buried in Hillside Cemetery, Redlands, San Bernardino Co., Ca. Millie further stated that Jesse Forest/Forrest (Couts) Moore had two brothers: Smith Couts and Charles Couts. Unfortunately, she was unable totell me whether they were younger or older than Jesse. Does this help a little more with identifying from which Couts family Jesse came? Any help you can extend would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Sincerely, Connie Sloan Ruffley
Subj: John Couts and Rebecca Little Date: 99-02-23 01:38:51 EST From: ruffley@earthlink.net (robert ruffley) Hi, I wrote you several months ago re: Jessie Forest Couts (b. 1 Dec. 1885, Newcomerstown, OH, d. 29 Sep. 1968, Riverside, CA) and her husband Newton Miller Moore, Sr. (b. 25 Feb. 1883, Newcomerstown, OH, d. 7 Oct. 1968, Riverside, CA). Just the other day, I received Jessie's death certificate which said that her father was John Couts and mother was Rebecca Little, both born Ohio. This John Couts was probably born between 1845-1860, depending on how large his family was and where Jessie was in birth-order. I'm sorry that I don't have any more info. on John Couts and Rebecca Little. If you know of anyone who is researching this family, please let me know. Thank you. Connie Ruffley sarawick@juno.com
From: jilliancapri@webtv.net (marilyn Couts) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 Subject: history of Couts Family I am the wife of Arthur R. Couts, Jr. age 48 and I have a son Arthur R. Couts 111 age 26 and he has a daughter named Jillian Capri Couts age 3. Their are generations I can go back to but at this time I will wait for you to respond if you feel it may be necessary. The only Couts family we ever knew of is our immediate family all from little Washington, Pa. This is very interesting to me and looking forward in hearing from you. Marilyn A. Couts Weigant & Associates Peter Weigant General Agent c/o Marilyn Couts Offce Manager
From: "Douglas R White" Subject: Kautz Genealogy Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 15:49 I am looking for information on my Kautz ancestors. I am decended from Fredrick Sebastian Kautz b 21 oct 1804, who emigrated to Ohio. Any information you can give me or anyone you could refer me to would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Doug White
From: Gidggette@aol.com Subject: Sought the couts family Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:56:52 EDT I am a part of the couts family am grandmother is betty couts wolff.her father was Charles Couts and we are located in uniontown Ohio. We have been doing work on the family tree for a long time. we have found out that there are many ways of saying the name and many ways to spell the name and we are all related to one another now matter the spelling. I am sure that my grand mother would love to get some info form you or to share the info we have gathered I found a relative by the name of Michael Coats he works for n.a.s.a as the commander of the shuttle. please contact me or any of the following address bettywolff (this is my grandmother Betty Wolff)dwolff5153 (my mother Darlene Wolff, Betty's Daughter) gidggette (Gidget Wolff, that's me) I hope to hear from you soon. GIDGET
Subj: Jacob Kuntz (Counts) descendants Date: 98-12-03 11:19:17 EST From: dlytton@primenet.com (WDC GenWeb) To: wdc-genweb@rootsweb.com Some descendants of Jacob Kuntz (Counts): http://www.primenet.com/~dlytton/wdc/z0000357.html We don't have any dates for Jacob, born in Germany, the main focus of this chart is his grandson John Counts Jr born about 1765 and died Oct 1 1843 in Russell Co VA. Surnames found in this chart are: Amburgey, Banner, Colley, Counts, Haynes, Jessee, Kelly, Kiser, Kuntz, Long, Magdeline, Mattox, Rasnake, Reynolds, Smith and Willard. From: "Ron and Jennifer Bailey" Subject: Re: Your Couts line Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 15:14:35 -0700 The Couts is a very distant line that married into a line that connects to another line that eventually connects to the Cooper family which is my main line. Here is where it connects:
1 Isaac CONDIT b: 05 Jun 1796 d: 18 Feb 1840 . +Catherine COOPER b: 17 Jun 1798 m: 07 Oct 1817 d: 12 Feb 1876 Father: Ephriam Cooper Mother: Margaret Van Voorhees .... 2 David CONDIT b: 08 Jul 1818 .... 2 Caroline CONDIT b: 05 Feb 1821 .... 2 Rebecca CONDIT b: 12 Jul 1823 .... 2 Ephraim CONDIT b: 29 Jul 1826 .... 2 Eunice CONDIT b: 09 Nov 1830 d: 06 Oct 1873 ........ +John MCCREARY b: 14 Jun 1832 m: 10 Apr 1851 d: 28 Oct 1906 Father: Thomas McCreary Mother: Mary Henry .......... 3 Pulaski Fulton MCCREARY b: 01 Apr 1852 in Bucyrus, Crawford County, Ohio d: Oct 1918 .............. +Olive May BRAUNELLAR b: 22 Feb 1862 in Findlay, Ohio m: 01 Dec 1881 d: 23 Jun 1952 in Blough Nursing Home, New Carlisle, Indiana Father: Augustus Braunellar Mother: Louisa J. ................ 4 Zenith Demott MCCREARY b: 05 Jan 1883 in Miami County, Indiana d: 21 Apr 1962 .................... +Bertha WHITE b: 23 Jul 1886 in Starke County, Indiana m: 28 Jan 1905 d: 30 Nov 1975 in Peru, Indiana Father: Jesse Perry White Mother: Esther Jane Downing ...................... 5 Ralph Leon MCCREARY b: 05 Nov 1906 in Marshall County, Indiana d: 31 Oct 1967 in Peru, Indiana .......................... +Ruth SHERRY b: 01 Jun 1909 in Lafayette, Indiana m: 21 Apr 1934 in Lafayette, Indiana d: Apr 1978 in Peru, Indiana ...................... 5 Wilma May MCCREARY .......................... +Kenneth L. KINNEY b: 11 Dec 1904 in Nappanee, Elkhart County, Indiana d: 17 Mar 1984 ...................... 5 [2] Zenith LaVerne MCCREARY b: 04 Sep 1910 in Marshall County, Indiana d: 29 Jul 1965 in Plymouth, Indiana .......................... +Marie SPAULDING ...................... *2nd Wife of [2] Zenith LaVerne McCreary: .......................... +Bernice COLVILLE ...................... 5 Gerald Verdene MCCREARY b: 25 Jan 1913 in Plymouth, Marshall County, Indiana d: 10 Dec 1975 in Peru, Miami County, Indiana .......................... +Phyllis HINES ...................... 5 [3] Clara Esther MCCREARY .......................... +Roy WALLICK ...................... *2nd Husband of [3] Clara Esther McCreary: .......................... +Oscar William MANNIES Father: Mother: ...................... *3rd Husband of [3] Clara Esther McCreary: .......................... +William H. OSBORN Father: Mother: ...................... 5 Paul MCCREARY b: 20 Mar 1920 in Peru, Miami County, Indiana d: 20 Mar 1920 in Peru, Miami County, Indiana ................ 4 Iva Frances MCCREARY b: 09 Dec 1884 in Gilead, Indiana d: 05 Jun 1978 in Countryside Place, Knox County, Indiana .................... +William Samuel HARTMAN b: 23 Aug 1884 in Burr Oak, Indiana m: 28 Mar 1908 in Plymouth, Indiana d: 26 Apr 1937 in Holland, Michigan Father: Mother: ...................... 5 Sylvia Belle HARTMAN .......................... +Arthur E. HAMMAN d: 21 Feb 1961 in Galesburg Hospital, Galesburg, Illinois ...................... 5 Esther Lorine HARTMAN .......................... +Louis Mental DAVIS b: 31 Oct 1902 in English Lake, Indiana d: 03 Jun 1982 in Countryside Place Nursing Home, Knox, Indiana Father: Mother: ...................... 5 Donald Levi HARTMAN b: 25 Mar 1913 in Plymouth, Indiana d: 01 Jun 1987 in Grand Haven, Michigan ...................... 5 May Elizabeth HARTMAN b: 24 May 1915 in Plymouth, Indiana d: Aug 1992 in Knox, Indiana .......................... +Everett KEISER b: 28 Feb 1913 in Knox, Indiana m: 22 Sep 1935 in Plymouth, Indiana d: 09 Apr 1994 in Knox, Indiana ............................. 6 [7] Adeline Joyce KEISER ................................ +Robert COUTS ................................... 7 [6] Mark COUTS ....................................... +Rebecca Lou KETCHAM ................................... *2nd Wife of [6] Mark Couts: ....................................... +Linda GRIFFO ......................................... 8 Rachel Amanda COUTS ......................................... 8 Allison Renee COUTS ................................... 7 Cindy COUTS ................................... 7 Sherri COUTS ................................... 7 Kristy COUTS ................................... 7 Mary Carol COUTS ............................. *2nd Husband of [7] Adeline Joyce Keiser: ................................ +Fred CLEVELAND ............................. *3rd Husband of [7] Adeline Joyce Keiser: ................................ +Edgar TONGES ................ 4 John Carl MCCREARY b: 23 Jun 1887 in Miami County, Indiana d: 22 Jan 1977 in Plymouth, Indiana .................... +Verne O'BREWER b: 19 Jan 1895 in Marshall County, Indiana m: 15 Apr 1916 in Plymouth, Indiana d: 20 Jun 1980 in South Bend, Indiana Father: Mother: ................ 4 Zella Glenna MCCREARY b: 10 Jan 1889 d: 31 Oct 1968 .................... +Oscar RIMER b: 05 May 1890 m: 27 May 1911 in Cluver, Indiana d: 19 Jun 1975 ................ 4 Cleo Myrtle MCCREARY b: 23 Nov 1890 in Burr Oak, Indiana d: 23 Jul 1982 in Longmont, Colorado .................... +Orpha R. SMITH b: 09 Apr 1898 m: 23 Mar 1918 ................ 4 Charles Augustus MCCREARY b: 20 Aug 1894 in Gilead, Indiana d: 29 Nov 1982 in Coldwater, Michigan .................... +Lucretia Davis PRYSE b: 20 Aug 1895 in Beattyville, Kentucky m: 20 Aug 1916 in Plymouth, Indiana d: 22 Jan 1950 in South Bend Osteopathic Hospital, South Bend, Indiana ................ 4 Robert Grant MCCREARY b: 04 Mar 1898 d: 28 Apr 1972 in Riverside Hospital, Riverside, California .................... +Sarah Mabelle PIPPENGER b: 31 Jul 1895 m: 30 Sep 1932 ................ 4 Golda MCCREARY b: 27 Jan 1901 d: Abt. 1931 .................... +Hally HOLDERREAD b: Abt. 1898 .......... 3 Julia Mary Cathrine MCCREARY b: 19 Jul 1853 d: Abt. 1931 .............. +Homer CARPENTER b: Abt. 1851 m: 17 Jul 1883 d: Abt. 1915 ................ 4 Irene CARPENTER ................ 4 Mary Katherine CARPENTER ................ 4 Minnie Delle CARPENTER b: 04 Nov 1884 in Miami County, Indiana d: 15 Sep 1962 in Mishawaka, Indiana .................... +John Edward ACKENHUSEN b: 30 Sep 1883 in Chicago, Cook County, Illinois m: 07 Jun 1911 in Methodist Church, Mishawaka, Indiana d: 25 Nov 1948 in Mishawaka, Indiana ................ 4 Lida Eunice CARPENTER b: 24 Aug 1888 .................... +Jack TRUAX .......... 3 Emma Reilla MCCREARY b: 20 Dec 1856 .............. +William SHEARER m: 07 Aug 1879 ................ 4 Nina SHEARER .................... +James HOLDERMAN .......... 3 Minerva Ruth MCCREARY b: 16 Jan 1861 .............. +Cyrus H. FREEMAN m: 25 Jun 1882 ................ 4 Howard FREEMAN .................... +IVY ................ 4 Eunice FREEMAN .................... +John STUTZMAN ................ 4 Dale FREEMAN .......... 3 Henry Christian MCCREARY b: 13 Sep 1862 ................ 4 Herman MCCREARY .................... +MATTIE ................ 4 Hazel MCCREARY .................... +Lloyd EGER ................ 4 Hiram MCCREARY .................... +CARRIE ................ 4 John MCCREARY .................... +BELLE .......... 3 Frederic George MCCREARY b: 16 Jan 1865 .............. +LILLIAN m: in Elkhart, Indiana .......... 3 Hettie Ann MCCREARY b: 03 Mar 1867 .............. +ARMSTRONG ................ 4 Bessie ARMSTRONG .................... +FISH ................ 4 Ethel ARMSTRONG .................... +HALL ................ 4 Russel ARMSTRONG .......... 3 [19] Minnie Elma MCCREARY b: 14 May 1869 .............. +CRANE ................ 4 Eunice CRANE .................... +Jack CRUM ................ 4 Alma CRANE .......... *2nd Husband of [19] Minnie Elma McCreary: .............. +RIVES .......... 3 Walter Franklin MCCREARY b: 31 Aug 1871 .......... 3 Eunice Lai MCCREARY b: 30 Jun 1873 d: 13 Aug 1873 Jen Bailey bailey@initco.net
Subject: John Couts Barb, I just accessed http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/asp/choosea.asp for Land Patent Search in Ohio for Couts. I found a John Couts, but don't have Java enabled on my computer so can't access the file when it says ORDER. Have you looked at the Land and Patents for Couts? favor and tune into http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/asp/response.asp see what it says about where John's land was in Sept. 1844. You may have to use the first address and go through the who process. LAUNA
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:03:45 EDT Subject: Couts Family I'm not from California but my name is Arthur Wayne Couts and my family supposedly descends from Germany. I was reading your web page and noticed a lot of similarities in names in my family like John and Joseph. Also my last name is pronounced the same way,not coots. If you think there is any connection in families I would be interested in finding out. thank you
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